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Discussion Starter #1
Finally the folks down at Ford/Lincoln are saying what we have been thinking for a long time. J Mays, Ford's Design Chief, said that Lincoln is "not true luxury." He went on to declare that Lincoln is in an investment stage that will probably take a good ten years.

Some analysts compare Lincoln to other struggling luxury brands like Infiniti and Acura.

Does ten years sound right to you for Lincoln to turn things around? Would you put Lincoln in the same league as Acura and Infiniti? (Because I thought Infiniti was doing better...)
 

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Lincoln was true luxury back in the 90's and even 80's but over time as the rest of the industry upped their game, lincoln sunk, and thats when they became less of a luxury brand. At least not they're taking the right steps to reestablish themselves as a premium brand.
 

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If Lincoln is going to be back in ten years or so, it has to start that upward swing very soon. Lincoln aimed to increase sales this year and instead has seen sales down about 7% from last year. I'm sure that is not part of the plan to get back into the actual luxury segment.

It is possible for brands to recover, as we saw with Cadillac, but it is also possible for brands to fail. Lincoln is walking a very fine line.
 

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Lets just hope they are getting near the end of that tens years because they need all the fire power they can get now. With import brands like kia and hyundai flooding in to the market with their luxury lines there will be little room on the pedestal for them to stand.
 

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I wouldn't say they are struggling. There are always more popular brands. It's not like all the brands will be successful. I don't think Infiniti and Acura are doing that poor either. They all have respectful cars.
 

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Unfortunately i can't say the same for Lincoln. Just reading over a couple of articles this week and nothing has been great for them. there has been a handful of reports from unhappy MKZ owners.
 

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It is possible for brands to recover, as we saw with Cadillac, but it is also possible for brands to fail. Lincoln is walking a very fine line.
Yup, although they're trying to move up, they are bringing themselves down with some bad idea's, but it's also a learning process for them while trying to reestablish the brand. We'll just have to see how things go over time.
 

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Yup, although they're trying to move up, they are bringing themselves down with some bad idea's, but it's also a learning process for them while trying to reestablish the brand. We'll just have to see how things go over time.
I am sometimes surprised that car companies come out with terrible products. I mean they must use focus groups and do ample amounts of market research. It also doesn't take someone special to say if a design looks ugly or not.

Give the people what they want and you will do fine. Lincoln doesn't know what the people want, and it shows in their products. If they don't get their act together they will lose all market share to the other luxury brands, or other companies trying to enter the market.
 

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I am sometimes surprised that car companies come out with terrible products. I mean they must use focus groups and do ample amounts of market research. It also doesn't take someone special to say if a design looks ugly or not.

Give the people what they want and you will do fine. Lincoln doesn't know what the people want, and it shows in their products. If they don't get their act together they will lose all market share to the other luxury brands, or other companies trying to enter the market.
Exactly.

I think the first step to a better brand would be platforms that are totally unique to them, nothing that shares a platform with Ford. It's killing them
 

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10 years from now Lincoln will still be very far behind in the luxury vehicle world, but at least this is a hint to a Ford and Lincoln that's much like BMW and Mercedes.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ford/Lincoln eventually have a supercar.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Exactly.

I think the first step to a better brand would be platforms that are totally unique to them, nothing that shares a platform with Ford. It's killing them
Sharing platforms cuts cost by a lot though, so I don't think that that would be a smart change, nor a change that is likely to happen. Quite the opposite, I think that Lincoln should use the new Ford Mustang chassis for a vehicle.

As far as whether or not Lincoln will be back in the game in 10 years, I would say that right now the outlook doesn't look good, but a lot can happen in 10 years. One super successful model, one concept that turns things around, it only takes one thing to start a domino effect.
 

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even if he was reffering to the ford fusion it makes no sense, the Fusion sells like a kinghellfreak.... Every single automaker shares platforms across their lineups. Every single Audi, except for R8 rides on the same modular platoform that can be stretched or shortened on a whim... It just that when you compare MKZ to its segment competitors it is hurt by riding on the Fusion

The 2016 Camaro is going to ride on the same platform as the Cadillac ATS... Lincoln products are good, the question is for who? In my mind alot of what lincoln does is still geared towards their north of 60 clientele. It wont be until they start aiming at the 40 year olds that Lincoln will change...

But fords design cheifs comments are more a battle cry than a death knell. They know they have to be better, rally the troops general!
 

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Sharing platforms cuts cost by a lot though, so I don't think that that would be a smart change, nor a change that is likely to happen. Quite the opposite, I think that Lincoln should use the new Ford Mustang chassis for a vehicle.

As far as whether or not Lincoln will be back in the game in 10 years, I would say that right now the outlook doesn't look good, but a lot can happen in 10 years. One super successful model, one concept that turns things around, it only takes one thing to start a domino effect.
I agree with hsaring platforms, they save money and the funds could be invested elsewhere. In Lincolns case they need to allocate the money and come up with a better game plan to make a come back. So from whaetever it is they are suffering from they might be able to put money on making a better MKZ.
 

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Quality and reliability is key, but so are rethroneable vehicles.
just look how unreliable german cars can be yet people still buy them and wait for them like a bunch of little girls at a bieber concert. Someones people will love a car or brand so much they will buy it even though they know there will be issues. People buy in just to be apart of the lifestyle.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
even if he was reffering to the ford fusion it makes no sense, the Fusion sells like a kinghellfreak.... Every single automaker shares platforms across their lineups. Every single Audi, except for R8 rides on the same modular platoform that can be stretched or shortened on a whim... It just that when you compare MKZ to its segment competitors it is hurt by riding on the Fusion

The 2016 Camaro is going to ride on the same platform as the Cadillac ATS... Lincoln products are good, the question is for who? In my mind alot of what lincoln does is still geared towards their north of 60 clientele. It wont be until they start aiming at the 40 year olds that Lincoln will change...

But fords design chiefs comments are more a battle cry than a death knell. They know they have to be better, rally the troops general!
I agree that it seems that Lincoln is aiming at an older clientele. The brand needs to see itself as something younger and cooler. I also think that Lincoln could use a bit of a design language update. The back of the MKZ looks great and so does the inside, but the rest of the exterior needs some changes. Aiming at a younger crowd, which is what many other luxury brands are doing right now, would likely do good things for the brand.
 

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I agree that it seems that Lincoln is aiming at an older clientele. The brand needs to see itself as something younger and cooler. I also think that Lincoln could use a bit of a design language update. The back of the MKZ looks great and so does the inside, but the rest of the exterior needs some changes. Aiming at a younger crowd, which is what many other luxury brands are doing right now, would likely do good things for the brand.
Lincoln already is in the process of a design language update.
I just think the way they went about the MKZ front end design wasn't so great.
The whole Phoenix theme killed it
 

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Quality and reliability is key, but so are rethroneable vehicles.
just look how unreliable german cars can be yet people still buy them and wait for them like a bunch of little girls at a bieber concert. Someones people will love a car or brand so much they will buy it even though they know there will be issues. People buy in just to be apart of the lifestyle.
I'd say some of the problems people are having with the MKZ are greater than what you get with BMW and Mercedes.

The German brands have gotten much better over the years in terms of reliability.
 
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