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Discussion Starter #1
Ford and Lincoln took 26th and 27th respectively in the new Consumer Reports Reliability Rankings. The poor result is mostly due to problems with the infotainment system, if that makes you feel any better.

Consumer Reports still has a considerable amount of sway over some buyers, so this is not good news for Ford and Lincoln. Cadillac joins the its domestic brethren at the bottom of the list in 25th position.

At the top of the list is Lexus, Toyota and Acura with Audi in 4th jumping an incredible 22 spots from its placing last year. The top domestic brand was GMC in 9th.

How embarrassing being in last place. Looks like Ford and Lincoln should take some time to fix its infotainment systems.

Guide to Car Reliability | Owner Satisfaction - Consumer Reports
 

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honestly most of these reports aren't that accurate for reliability because the majority of the complaints for Ford and Lincoln are for the in car systems that people just don't know how to use. Not real mechanical or electrical issues.
 

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Sad to see american car makers continue to be at the bottom while Japanese car makers always continue to be at the top or just fall short of being at the top. Ford/Lincoln needs to a lot of improving.
 

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Why cant they just throw a list out instead of forcing us to watch the stupid video.

Audi is reliable? Right...

GMC is doing pretty well. Didn't see that one.
 

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Even if it is just the in car systems that are keeping the brands near the bottom of the list, that is the difference between the bottom and the top of the list. Maybe Ford/Lincoln should fix the system so that it works, like those at the top of the reliability list, and then they would not suffer in this ranking. It doesn't seem like it should be a hard thing to make a system that works well. Plenty of people specialize in creating interfaces like this.
 

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Even if it is just the in car systems that are keeping the brands near the bottom of the list, that is the difference between the bottom and the top of the list. Maybe Ford/Lincoln should fix the system so that it works, like those at the top of the reliability list, and then they would not suffer in this ranking. It doesn't seem like it should be a hard thing to make a system that works well. Plenty of people specialize in creating interfaces like this.
this has nothing to do with reliability. When I hear reliability I think about systems malfuntioning that are going to land me in trouble if they falter, or render the vehicle in operable. Silly little things like brakes or combustion. Not this silly drivel, just another example of the farce society is becoming.

MY touch screen doesn't work, UNRELIABLE. Your brakes don't work, DEAD....

The system was built by one of the people who specialize in creating interfaces like this. Microsoft, have they been around before...

but again I need to remind people, that this is a car, not a computer, not a cell phone, but a car. You turn it on, push the gas to go, brakes to not and turn left or right with the steering wheel. If it ceases to execute any of those functions it is unreliable. Because your car won't read text messages in Siri's trademarked drone does not make it unreliable, people are unsustainable.
 

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I agree with zep, it seems people who come up with these ratings are focusing on the wrong thing. But it seems like to them any problem will qualify with bringing a brand down, i guess it's fair?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
this has nothing to do with reliability. When I hear reliability I think about systems malfuntioning that are going to land me in trouble if they falter, or render the vehicle in operable. Silly little things like brakes or combustion. Not this silly drivel, just another example of the farce society is becoming.

MY touch screen doesn't work, UNRELIABLE. Your brakes don't work, DEAD....

The system was built by one of the people who specialize in creating interfaces like this. Microsoft, have they been around before...

but again I need to remind people, that this is a car, not a computer, not a cell phone, but a car. You turn it on, push the gas to go, brakes to not and turn left or right with the steering wheel. If it ceases to execute any of those functions it is unreliable. Because your car won't read text messages in Siri's trademarked drone does not make it unreliable, people are unsustainable.
To say that all a car needs to do is go is such a shallow viewpoint. Cars are so much more than brakes and an engine. Sure those are the most important functions of the car, but people expect a wholly working vehicle from top to bottom when they buy. It really isn't acceptable to have any part of the car not work properly or break down.

I get that the part of the car that you'd most want to be reliable are the basic parts, but I think that standards are much higher than that now. And they should be, that is progress. How hard is it to make something that works properly anyway? That is what car companies should be doing.
 

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I think when they do these rankings that they should remove issues with the computer interface. They aren't really reliability issues.

Reliability is like electrical problems, mechanical problems.

I wouldn't even include rattles and squeaks to be reliability.

Just build quality. Which could be a separate analysis.
 

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To say that all a car needs to do is go is such a shallow viewpoint. Cars are so much more than brakes and an engine. Sure those are the most important functions of the car, but people expect a wholly working vehicle from top to bottom when they buy. It really isn't acceptable to have any part of the car not work properly or break down.

I get that the part of the car that you'd most want to be reliable are the basic parts, but I think that standards are much higher than that now. And they should be, that is progress. How hard is it to make something that works properly anyway? That is what car companies should be doing.
why is it shallow? A car is transportation, people had no expectations of their horses and buggys except that they would go and not drop dead along the way. What part of an infotainment system is integral to the function of a vehicle? Does it impact your ability to get from A to B and don't say GPS there are things called maps or gas station attendants for directional assistance.

My question to you then is WHY are the standards higher. People don't expect infotainment on the bus or subway and those fulfill the same basic duty of A to B...
 

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although it doesn't impact your ability to get from a to be, it should still be factored in, it's what is included in the vehicle and should work as how you'd expect it to. plus infotainment systems have become an important part of new cars that if it fails to do it's job it makes the vehicle seem worse. For cadillac it was like this.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
why is it shallow? A car is transportation, people had no expectations of their horses and buggys except that they would go and not drop dead along the way. What part of an infotainment system is integral to the function of a vehicle? Does it impact your ability to get from A to B and don't say GPS there are things called maps or gas station attendants for directional assistance.

My question to you then is WHY are the standards higher. People don't expect infotainment on the bus or subway and those fulfill the same basic duty of A to B...
If all that matters is it taking you from point a to point b then you could buy a horse and buggy and be happy with it. Lincoln is a luxury brand furthermore, which means it should do more than just go. The only cars that just move people are cheap emerging markets cars, and at least they don't try to make a infotainment system and fail at it.

No matter what you put in the vehicle, it should work properly. If it doesn't work then don't put it in.
 

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If all that matters is it taking you from point a to point b then you could buy a horse and buggy and be happy with it. Lincoln is a luxury brand furthermore, which means it should do more than just go. The only cars that just move people are cheap emerging markets cars, and at least they don't try to make a infotainment system and fail at it.

No matter what you put in the vehicle, it should work properly. If it doesn't work then don't put it in.
you've just muddled reliability and expectations. A horse and buggy in todays day and age is too expensive to be a viable option but I'm glad you latched onto my point.

Reliability is about the integral functions of the vehicle, you know them well, starting, stopping and turning. If your car won't turn on you're taking the bus, If your nav screen doesn't turn on the vehicle will still get you from A to B.

I'm not only in it for A to B but my point being that you cannot criticize a vehicles reliability if it is not impacting your ability to get from A to B or your safety. Anything more is foolish first world problems.
 

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you've just muddled reliability and expectations. A horse and buggy in todays day and age is too expensive to be a viable option but I'm glad you latched onto my point.

Reliability is about the integral functions of the vehicle, you know them well, starting, stopping and turning. If your car won't turn on you're taking the bus, If your nav screen doesn't turn on the vehicle will still get you from A to B.

I'm not only in it for A to B but my point being that you cannot criticize a vehicles reliability if it is not impacting your ability to get from A to B or your safety. Anything more is foolish first world problems.
this is so true.
nav/info screens dont matter that much, it's more about the core parts that get the vehicle moving and do most of what a car needs to do
 

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this is so true.
nav/info screens dont matter that much, it's more about the core parts that get the vehicle moving and do most of what a car needs to do
I think you missed the point. If all I wanted to do was go from a to b then I didn't have to buy a lincoln..... I want to go from a to b in style which includes all the toys to work.
 

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maybe these reports should have two different reports

one for the mechanical bits (engine, transmission, motors)

and one for the infotainment system satisfaction
 

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maybe these reports should have two different reports

one for the mechanical bits (engine, transmission, motors)

and one for the infotainment system satisfaction
that would certainly alleviate confusion. There is a BIG difference between being inconvenienced and incapacitated...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
It could make sense for the report to be divided into different categories. one for mechanics, one for entertainment, one for driver assistance functions. And then the overall ranking would still be the same.

@zep, you can't just say "reliability is about the integral functions of the car," as if that is the concrete definition of the word. That is your definition of the word 'reliability.' As with any product, reliability should apply to the entire product. If you buy a smartphone, you expect it to be able to do much more than send and receive phone calls.
 

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It could make sense for the report to be divided into different categories. one for mechanics, one for entertainment, one for driver assistance functions. And then the overall ranking would still be the same.

@zep, you can't just say "reliability is about the integral functions of the car," as if that is the concrete definition of the word. That is your definition of the word 'reliability.' As with any product, reliability should apply to the entire product. If you buy a smartphone, you expect it to be able to do much more than send and receive phone calls.
++++++^ what he said^^^^^^^^++++++++
 

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but then there is also a difference between reliability and dissatisfaction.

some people are just not satisfied and it comes across as a reliability issue. thats why I only really look into mechanical problems (including electrical like headlights, windows, etc) as a true gauge of reliability.

I do take into account problems with the infotainment but I dont factor that into the reliability of the rest of the car.

Alot of the time problems with the infotainment is just sluggish or buggy infotainment or user error

good example is Cadillacs CUE system.

Most people who complain about it are just complaining about how its kind of slow and how they dont know how to use it / complicated

There is nothing WRONG with the CUE system. But that stuff all goes back to the dealership which gets factored into reliability.
 
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